By Dr. Pshtiwan Faraj

Reporter:

My question is: Jalal Talabani has been in contact with many people around the world, in America, Europe, Asia—meaning there is no state where the Kurdish issue was not present, that he has not visited. There, of course, he met many figures and individuals. In short, were there people who influenced him or whom he cannot forget? In these last 20–30 years, who were those personalities?

Mam Jalal:

Yes, 40 years ago... 40 full years. In 1955, I went abroad for the first time from Kurdistan; I went to the World Festival of Youth and Students in Warsaw.

When we first went there, intending specifically to participate under the name of the Kurdistan Youth Delegation, it was not allowed, and they did not permit it. At that time, the Communist Party said: "You must come under the name of one country, not under the name of the Kurds." But we made an effort and did a few things. What I remember very well is that for the first time, we met the great Turkish poet, Nâzım Hikmet.

In Warsaw, when we met Nâzım Hikmet, he was wearing a Kurdish jacket. He put on the Kurdish jacket and delivered a very passionate speech at a meeting. He said: "I love the Kurds very much; the Kurds are an oppressed nation. I hope a day comes when I see the freedom of Kurdistan, and that I am there to see the freedom of the Kurds with my own eyes." He spoke very well.

Many youth from around the world were present at that meeting—representatives from Russia, China, India, England, France, Turkey, the Arab countries, and Iran. As you know, Nâzım Hikmet had influence and was famous. When he delivered his speech, everyone's attention turned to the Kurdish issue. Before that, whenever we met any group, no one knew who the Kurds were. We had to sit down with them and explain what Kurdistan is, explaining that Kurdistan was divided like this and that the Kurdish nation is like this.

However, Nâzım Hikmet’s attendance at that meeting was a major achievement. That is why I can say the first person abroad who influenced me was Nâzım Hikmet.

After that, we went to China. In 1955, we visited China and the Soviet Union. In those countries, I met many great personalities. On that trip, I met Mao Zedong, I met Zhou Enlai, and a few other things... there were other famous personalities.

It was an opportunity for us—for example, I met Madame Soong Ching-ling. Madame Soong Ching-ling was the wife of Sun Yat-sen, the famous first president of the Republic of China. At the time I visited China, she was the Vice President of the People's Republic of China.

I had brought a Kurdish flag and a map of Kurdistan for her. She was very pleased with the Kurdish flag. (Reporter: Yes, yes) Along with a Kurdish woman, when I presented it to her, she was very delighted. She thanked us, discussed the Kurdish issue, and expressed hope that God willing, the Kurdish nation would be liberated.

After that trip, I made many other journeys. In 1957, I went to the Moscow Festival. In Moscow, I also met many people; I met many freedom fighters and personalities from the Middle East. For example, I met Abdel Khaliq Mahjub, the Secretary of the Sudanese Communist Party. (Reporter: Yes)

I met many other people who had come from European countries, and we discussed the Kurdish issue with them.

Another personality I met was Gamal Abdel Nasser. President Gamal Abdel Nasser was a great Arab leader and truly a friend to the Kurds. After several meetings with him, he showed great sympathy toward the Kurds. I would like to tell you an important story from earlier:

In 1956 or 1957, we worked with Abdel Nasser to open a Kurdish radio station—a Kurdish radio station in Cairo. Abdel Nasser recounted to us, saying: "One day, the ambassador of Turkey came to see me. The Turkish ambassador was very angry and tense. He sat down and said: 'President Abdel Nasser, have you been hostile toward us lately?' I said: 'No, you are my friends.' He said: 'Then why are you spreading propaganda against us?' I said: 'I haven't done that.' He said: 'Then why did you open a radio station in Kurdish?'

Abdel Nasser said: 'It occurred to me that they claim there are no Kurds in Turkey. So I said: If there are no Kurds in Turkey, this radio station doesn't harm you! There are Kurds in Syria, in Iraq, in Iran.' He said: 'No! It affects our Kurds as well!' So I calmed down, took out a blank piece of paper, handed it to him, and said: 'Please, write down officially for me that there are Kurds in Turkey, so that I can close down this radio station that affects them!' He said: 'Well, I cannot write that!' I said: 'Then when you say there are no Kurds, we are not addressing you; we are addressing the Kurds of Iran, Iraq, and Syria.'"

This was a good blow dealt by the late Gamal Abdel Nasser.

After that, we truly became friends. Among the Arabs, it became well-known that Jalal Talabani was a friend of Abdel Nasser. Abdel Nasser was very good to us. Whenever the Iraqi government waged war against the Kurds, he would raise his voice and say: "This is wrong; you must not wage war against the Kurds." He provided financial assistance to us for the issue of autonomy and Kurdish rights within Iraq.

Other people I met—in the sixties, I met President Ahmed Ben Bella. Ahmed Ben Bella was the President of Algeria. At that time, he was very good to the Kurds. Later on, and up until now, my friendship with him has continued. He wrote a letter to me saying: "The issue of the Kurdish nation can only be solved when the right to self-determination is secured for the Kurds; otherwise, the Kurdish problem will not be solved."

Other people I met—I met many. I met many Arab leaders; I met King Hussein, I met President Hafez al-Assad many times, President Muammar Gaddafi... You know Gaddafi used to say strange things. Whenever anyone sat with him, he would say: "Kurdistan exists; the nation of Kurdistan must be free and independent." Even in the end, when talking at a gathering for Muslims—among Sufi and Islamic groups—he would say: "Yes, Kurdistan must be free and independent." He said things like that; we didn't ask him to say it, but we said Kurdish rights within states should be federal, democratic, and based on human rights. He would say: "No, a free Kurdistan must be created."

Other people in the Arab world—I knew all the responsible Palestinian figures: Yasser Arafat, George Habash, Nayef Hawatmeh, Ahmed Jibril... and others, all of whom I knew by name. Politically, in Lebanon, I met many people. In Europe and America, as you know, I met many European leaders; I met François Mitterrand, I met Havel, Major (John Major), foreign ministers of America, France, Britain, Germany, Spain... I met many in Italy.

My view is that today the Kurdish issue has become recognized, unlike before. In the past, 20 years ago, when we went and wanted to sit with a minor official in the Foreign Ministry of Germany, Britain, or France, they would not meet us. Even if they saw us in a cafe or somewhere, the meeting was unofficial; they would say this is not official. But today, the situation of the Kurds has advanced to the point where heads of state meet us, their prime ministers meet us, their foreign ministers... Today, this is proof that Jalal Talabani is the same Jalal Talabani of the past, but the struggle of the Kurds has elevated the Kurdistan issue. It has reached an international level where no one can close their eyes and say Kurds do not exist or there is no Kurdish problem.

This has led to the conclusion I have reached; a lesson I have learned is that: When Kurds carry out political and armed struggles within their own country, they must also conduct a good political struggle abroad, run a good political campaign, and do something that convinces the nations of the world that the Kurdish cause is a just cause, that the Kurdish proposal is legitimate, and that it must be solved in a democratic and political way with their support.

My view is that this presence in the world has advanced our cause significantly. This is the first lesson I have learned. The second is that Kurds abroad, in the countries where they live, must respect the laws of those countries. That is, when a person is in England, France, or Germany, they must respect the laws of those states where they live; they must abide by their laws and not violate them. Because in the countries where we live, since the governments are not democratic and oppress us, we do not feel guilty about violating their laws; but abroad, in foreign countries, it should not be like that. Abroad, we must abide by the laws of those countries and respect them.

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